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Pali Sutta Chat, 6-4-99 Open
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PowerHelp: For Help using PowerChat, type in /help/ and press enter.
PowerChat: *** Entered Buddhist Discussion on 6/3/99 at 06:01 PM ***
TGrand458: LOL
RBCF Ray H: LOL Hi Terry
TGrand458: OK, lets get started
OnlineHost: Weifin has entered the room.
RBCF Ray H: But now I understand why you feel the term, lack of
RBCF Ray H: permenent self cuases problems....it leads to the idea
RBCF Ray H: there is a convental self
TGrand458: Its trouble anyway you look at it. LOL]
RBCF Ray H: A temporay self, if you will....and that is just another subtle
RBCF Ray H: attachement to idea of self
RBCF Ray H: Welcome Weifin, to the Pali Sutta Chat
TGrand458: yes
Weifin: thx
RBCF Ray H: How are you doing tonight Weifin
Weifin: tired from starting back to work after 6 weeks off
RBCF Ray H: LOL, exhausting vacation!
Weifin: talking about the "self"?
Weifin: recovery from minor surgery!
RBCF Ray H: Yea, I had to leave early last time it came up, and had
RBCF Ray H: some issues i had to deal with
Weifin: recall seeing in the Questions of Milinda about the concept of self being like a flame movin
Weifin: from candel to candle
RBCF Ray H: Hope everything went smoothly, i know how those minor
RBCF Ray H: surgeries can be very draining
Weifin: seem to be back to "normal" at present
RBCF Ray H: Great Weifin, glad to hear it...
Weifin: Question about the monk (theravadin) due next week, will it be any ques. goes?
RBCF Ray H: I think that was to show how karma goes from one being to
RBCF Ray H: another, but not self per say Weifin....
Weifin: true..
Weifin: with anatman...that would not arise for them?
RBCF Ray H: Yes Weifin, I think so, but not sure yet...I know he has a
RBCF Ray H: book coming out, and I think he mostly concentrates on
RBCF Ray H: meditation questions, but I think we will be able to open it
RBCF Ray H: up
TGrand458: Just like the flame...it is not the same flame or a different one. It is just conditions
OnlineHost: DncnMySOff has entered the room.
Weifin: fine to focus on specific meditation questions..
RBCF Ray H: Hi DncnMySOff
Weifin: Yes...about the flame...not "same"
RBCF Ray H: Yea, but it is no way that I can see that karma relates to a
RBCF Ray H: individual self...that was part of the debate last week
Weifin: would like to re-read Questions of King Milinda...read so long ago
RBCF Ray H: Dncn, welcome to tonights Pali Sutta Chat
DncnMySOff: thanx
DncnMySOff: i have an interesting question. i am 15. ive felt a strong pull to buddhism seemingly out of
Weifin: many mahayana seem to have picked up alayavijnana to cover or go around it...
DncnMySOff: nowhere. could i have been buddhist in another life?
OnlineHost: KChoedak has entered the room.
RBCF Ray H: Welcome KChoedak, to the Pali Sutta Chat
KChoedak: am i late
Weifin: would be too easy to say yes to that one Mysoff
RBCF Ray H: Dncn, I dont know....what is it about Buddhism you find
RBCF Ray H: attractive?
RBCF Ray H: Na KC, just an open chat tonight, the mail group did not
RBCF Ray H: send out a new sutta this week
DncnMySOff: i don't know its just so much more interesting and more believable. the stuff that i read...
Weifin: What was the SUtta scheduled?
TGrand458: Dn...it is possible that you were a Buddhist in previous life, but whats important is to mak
DncnMySOff: i think to myself "oh yeah! i believed that all along"
TGrand458: Dn....make the most out of this one
Weifin: Agree
RBCF Ray H: It should have been 12 Weifin, the greater discourse of the
RBCF Ray H: Lions Roar..not sure that is exact title
DncnMySOff: yes it is a rather superficial question but it helps me determine whether or not to take
DncnMySOff: certaim moments of doubt too seriously
OnlineHost: RBCF Daofa has entered the room.
RBCF Ray H: Dncn, when you have doubts, check them out, ask around,
RBCF Ray H: just dont burry them in a past life :))
RBCF Ray H: Welcome RBCF Daofa, to the Pali Sutta Chat
Weifin: MySoff--buddhism has many choices as to teachings will be interesting for you am sure...
RBCF Ray H: Open chat tonight Daofa, they did not send out a new
RBCF Ray H: Sutta, and I dont want to get out of sync with the group
DncnMySOff: It is very disturbing and saddening whenever i have doubts about my belief in buddhism, but
DncnMySOff: if i didn't really love it and believe in it i wouldn't cling to it as i do
Weifin: I still have doubts but have been with it many many moons and don't see me changing...
RBCF Ray H: What have you read so far Dncn?
KChoedak: I am sure what saddens you is "popular" buddhism and other buddhists, but
TGrand458: Dn...The Buddha called the Dhamma --"The one fortunate attachment"
KChoedak: buddhism itself is rather not much to bother
RBCF Ray H: Yes, in fact I was talking with TGrand just a bit back,
RBCF Ray H: about my understandings of the idea of self, within
RBCF Ray H: Buddhism, to clarify some things..its best to do that when
RBCF Ray H: you have questions..
DncnMySOff: I'm fairly new to Buddhism (about 6 months?) and of hours of research on the net ive read
DncnMySOff: Siddhartha and Awakening hte Buddha Within (almost done)
OnlineHost: NateRH86 has entered the room.
DncnMySOff: and (on top) of...
Log Count: There were 7 member(s) in Buddhist Discussion at 06:15 PM
Weifin: IS that by Sheng Yen? the Chinese monk?
KChoedak: you have not taken refuge?
NateRH86: hello
DncnMySOff: which one?
Weifin: Awakening the Buddha...that one
NateRH86: i need to know some things for homework, can you help?
RBCF Ray H: Sure Nate, go ahead
DncnMySOff: No its by Lama Surya Das....an American who was actually born Jewish
Weifin: Am familiar with him...haven't read anything as yet tho
KChoedak: Have you taken refuge OFF
DncnMySOff: he became interested in Buddhism when he was around 20. his is a great story
NateRH86: what are the 3 ways to achive your life's goal?
Weifin: Lama Surya Das does have a web site...saw it listed in Tricycle
KChoedak: He is a big time Dzogchen teacher, many claim he lies on his biography data.
DncnMySOff: yes i contacted him
RBCF Ray H: Dncn, I would also recommend "What the Buddha Taught"
RBCF Ray H: by Walpola Rahula...and good book on the life of hte
RBCF Ray H: Buddha is by Thich Nhat Hanh, "Old Path White Clouds"
RBCF Ray H: its a long book but a good one
TGrand458: Nate...that might be answered by -- developing virtue, concentration, and wisdom
Weifin: Sounds like a good one Ray...just suggestion
Weifin: meant good suggestion
KChoedak: OFF are you a buddhist with refuge or are you just reading?
DncnMySOff: I just wrote both of the books down and you can count on me reading
DncnMySOff: them
Weifin: Ray--would you recomment TRicycle or their web site?
DncnMySOff: KC, i haven't taken refuge i hope i will though
RBCF Ray H: Yes I would Weifin, lots of good materal there
Weifin: Soff--try www.tricycle.com
TGrand458: Weifin...I personally do not recommend Tricycle as a good source of Dhamma
Weifin: They also have and ABC's of Buddhism or Buddhism 101
Weifin: Grand--who would you recommend?
KChoedak: I do not like tricycle
NateRH86: Thanks a lot eveyone
RBCF Ray H: Another excellent web site is.....
NateRH86: bye
DncnMySOff: i hate to sound ego-ish but im past buddhism 101
RBCF Ray H: http://world.std.com/~metta/index.html
KChoedak: When they first came out i thought it was neat....
OnlineHost: NateRH86 has left the room.
RBCF Daofa: There is also http://villa.lakes.com/cdpatton/
RBCF Ray H: Dncn, that site has many of the earliest recorded
RBCF Ray H: teachings of the Buddha, the Wings of Awakening is long,
RBCF Ray H: but a very good reference materal
DncnMySOff: ok its on my favorite places so i can check it out later.
DncnMySOff: it does look interesting
Weifin: Ray--you had a group of listing in your news letter...enjoyed those, still exploring
RBCF Ray H: On yes Weifin....where are my manners.....Dncn, we have
RBCF Ray H: a Buddhist information emails, that have a number of links
RBCF Ray H: on them, and will let you know about upcoming chats...if
RBCF Ray H: you like, I can put you on the email list?
DncnMySOff: yes please!
DncnMySOff: that would be excellent
Weifin: Ray we have a new Theravadin center here not far and I gave them infor about the talk for 16
Weifin: 16th
RBCF Ray H: Daofa, check out the mailing, not sure if I have the
RBCF Ray H: CDpatton link...
Weifin: hope they will join us
RBCF Ray H: Great Weifin, that sounds wonderful..
TGrand458: Weifin..."What the Buddha taught" is a good primer to read and reread. But the Suttas....
RBCF Daofa: The Gateless Passage moved just recently ... there is a redirect page at the old URL.
Weifin: please do add me to all e-mail listings you have for Buddhist chat, mailouts etc.
RBCF Ray H: You are on the list Weifin _
TGrand458: Weifin...are considered the Buddhas teaching and are perhaps the most beneficial sources to
TGrand458: study
Weifin: trying to get to the older nirvana sutta and some others...but usually read mahayana sutras
TGrand458: Weifin..."mindfulness in Plain English" is pretty good too.
RBCF Ray H: Daofa, email me the URL and I will make sure to add it!!!
Weifin: Grand--who has the "mindfulness..." you mentioned
Weifin: it's not the Sattipatana?
TGrand458: "Mindfulness in Plain English" is useful for application.
DncnMySOff: this was great i hope youve added me to the mailing list....i have to go now. Om mani to all
TGrand458: "Mindfulness" is published by Wisdom Publications
Weifin: bye Mysoff
RBCF Daofa: Weifin ... the Pali Parinirvana Sutra is in Maurice Walsh's translation fo the Digha Nikaaya
DncnMySOff: cya
OnlineHost: DncnMySOff has left the room.
TGrand458: MPE that is
RBCF Ray H: By Dncn, your on the list _
Weifin: My present copy is old Rhys Davids
Weifin: Is it good?
TGrand458: Walshe is more "readable" that Rhys Davids
KChoedak: hey guys gotto go... some one else needs the puter...
RBCF Ray H: If you check Amazon, may be able to get it cheaper, only
RBCF Ray H: place I always buy from besides Amazon is Pariyatti, want
RBCF Ray H: to support them _
Weifin: seeya Choiedak..
OnlineHost: KChoedak has left the room.
RBCF Ray H: Bye KC, thanks for stoping by
Weifin: Pariyatta?
TGrand458: www.pariyatti.com
RBCF Ray H: Yes Weifin, they have a web site...great source for Pali
RBCF Ray H: text and commentaries
Weifin: \Romanized?
Weifin: Enlgish
RBCF Ray H: yes...
RBCF Ray H: And many are very inexpensive
RBCF Daofa: Walsh doesn't seem too bad, but I don't know Pali, so don't take my word for it. ;-)
Log Count: There were 4 member(s) in Buddhist Discussion at 06:30 PM
TGrand458: Got to run. Metta everyone.
OnlineHost: DukkhaKoti has entered the room.
RBCF Ray H: Bye TG, thanks for stopping by and the input
DukkhaKoti: tg hiya
RBCF Ray H: Welcome DukkhaKoti, to the Pali Sutta Chat
DukkhaKoti: don't go TG
TGrand458: LOL
RBCF Daofa: Cya, TG and KC
TGrand458: Why not duk?
Weifin: Dukkha has a good pali glossory I copied,...thx Dukkha
DukkhaKoti: cause i haven't seen you in a while
RBCF Ray H: See there TG, you cant go LOL
OnlineHost: TGrand458 has left the room.
DukkhaKoti: weif , thanks
RBCF Ray H: How are things going with you Dukkha
DukkhaKoti: i am pooping too much , and the doctors don't know why
Weifin: Good a mailing adress to Access to Insight for a Pali text translator or texts? Anyone know
Weifin: about them?
RBCF Ray H: Bummer, how long?
DukkhaKoti: weif i got a link to the sight
DukkhaKoti: thats where 90% of the info came from , access to insight
Weifin: Have you tried Bao Ji Wan (chinese)? Dukkha...
DukkhaKoti: what is it ?
RBCF Ray H: Yes, great stuff...Weifin, if you go to the link about the CD-
RBCF Ray H: ROM....you can get an address and when they send out
RBCF Ray H: the next batch, they will send you a CD of Pali Text, in
RBCF Ray H: essance their whole site, on CD for FREE!!!
Weifin: Gentle herbal things for upset stomach, intestine, etc....
OnlineHost: BandGSmith has entered the room.
Weifin: Any Chinese herbalist should have it...
RBCF Ray H: Welcome BandGSmith, to the Pali Sutta Chat
Weifin: seeing doctors is better...
DukkhaKoti: access to insight , POBOX 153 , lincoln MA 01773
DukkhaKoti: :-)
Weifin: Thx--Ray, I'll give it a shot too.
RBCF Ray H: You may want to check the net, I have been amazed at
RBCF Ray H: how many nurtinal sites there are on the internet
DukkhaKoti: i see a herbalist in chi town once in a while
RBCF Ray H: Great Dukkha, just send them a postcard with your
RBCF Ray H: address and they will send you the CD-ROM...!!!
Weifin: Just a suggestion...am sure you're in good hands...good luck with it...
OnlineHost: Carignavar has entered the room.
Weifin: Dukkha thx, I'll go to your site to get the link...
RBCF Ray H: Welcome Carignavar, to the Pali Sutta Chat
DukkhaKoti: oh ray , version 2 of the cd is due late this year
Carignavar: thanks ray
DukkhaKoti: hi carig
RBCF Ray H: Hey there Carignavar, lots of folks asking about the
RBCF Ray H: 13th...have you heard back yet about the time?
Weifin: If anyone needs Chinese/japanese/korean characters have a site for that...6 months free
Carignavar: no Ray
Weifin: also have list for Chinese yahoo
OnlineHost: BandGSmith has left the room.
RBCF Ray H: RBCF Doafa will be interested in that....but alas I have
RBCF Ray H: enough trouble with English LOL
Weifin: Chinese is my second language
RBCF Ray H: Really! Great
RBCF Daofa: What's that ... Chinese software ... I use Unionway everyday. ;-)
RBCF Daofa: I just read it.
Weifin: That is the site I copied from, my daughter told me about it
DukkhaKoti: i am tring to learn Thai but i am not doing good
Weifin: www.unionway.com--down load every 6 months
OnlineHost: BiruSomisu has entered the room.
RBCF Ray H: Welcome BiruSomisu, to the Pali Sutta Chat
Weifin: What is the general structure of Thai--Chinese is subject/verb/object
Weifin: Japanese/korean is subject/object/verb
RBCF Ray H: I dont know Weifin, check with TG next time he is on, he
RBCF Ray H: was a monk in Thailand, he might know
DukkhaKoti: weif , um , i haven't got that far , i am still tring to get the saying part righ
DukkhaKoti: right
Weifin: Will help you get it if you get a little grammar as you go
DukkhaKoti: lol i gave up
OnlineHost: ChrisJ2000 has entered the room.
Weifin: Chinese grammar is 10 times easier than English
Weifin: 110 times
ChrisJ2000: hello
RBCF Ray H: Really, amazing....sure is a wonderful looking language
RBCF Daofa: No conjugations at least. Classical Chinese is a pain though.
RBCF Ray H: Welcome ChrisJ2000, to the Pali Sutta Chat
Weifin: Yea...I get stuck easily
ChrisJ2000: So is everyone here Theravadan but me?
Weifin: I'm more mahayan--but practise is practise
RBCF Daofa: Ray and Dukkha.
DukkhaKoti: i am bisectual
RBCF Daofa: LOL
DukkhaKoti: theravadin / tibetan
Weifin: not trisectual?
Log Count: There were 7 member(s) in Buddhist Discussion at 06:45 PM
BiruSomisu: love it
ChrisJ2000: I'm a mamber of the honmonbutsuryushu
ChrisJ2000: member scuse me.
DukkhaKoti: who ?
Weifin: Not sure what that is?
DukkhaKoti: me neither
Weifin: Where?
OnlineHost: RBCF Alaya has entered the room.
Weifin: Looks Japanese
ChrisJ2000: The HBS is a Nichiren sect of buddhism, we're not like the sokka gakkai though so please....
RBCF Ray H: Hi Alaya, glad you could make it _
RBCF Alaya: HI RAY
ChrisJ2000: shun me.. : )
RBCF Ray H: I wouldnt shun you even if you were SGI, some of my best
Weifin: Dukkha--was reading recently that Tibetan tripitaka doesn't have agama sections?
RBCF Ray H: friends are SGI _
OnlineHost: BCB7 has entered the room.
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DukkhaKoti: weif , i dunno , i learn martial arts from a tibetan nun , and some other practices
RBCF Ray H: Welcome BCB7, to the Pali Sutta Chat
DukkhaKoti: theravada is me scholarly study
RBCF Daofa: I have heard that as well Wei.
ChrisJ2000: no disrespect intended Dukkha
Weifin: Found an interesting overview of Theravadin/Tibetan/Chinese tripitaka...on the net!
OnlineHost: ZenDragonz has entered the room.
BCB7: Howdy folks
DukkhaKoti: chris , none taken , in fact what did you say to dis me ?
RBCF Ray H: Really Weifin, sounds very interesting, you have the URL?
RBCF Ray H: Welcome ZenDragonz, to the Pali Sutta Chat
Weifin: Was at Buddhanet,net
DukkhaKoti: thats agreat sight
RBCF Daofa: Hiya, Zen.
Weifin: Buddhanet.net/canon.htm
ZenDragonz: Thank you. Hello
RBCF Ray H: Thanks Weifin, I will check it out, and add it to the links _
Weifin: Had a little difficulty at a few points but on the whole is very good
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ZenDragonz: How are you, Shih Fa-men
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RBCF Daofa: Doing good, Zen. You?
RBCF Alaya: me too.. is everyone checking out the website now? LOL
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RBCF Daofa: Buddha.net ... we must have read the same thing, Wei.
Weifin: Yes...I made a copy so I could read more casually
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Weifin: Ray have you seen Dukkha's Pali glossory?
RBCF Alaya: where is that?
Weifin: Daofa--do you have more of a leaning towards Chinese Buddhism?
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Weifin: Alaya at Dukkha's website
OnlineHost: RolangDorJ has left the room.
Weifin: I guess we will be getting E-mail from RolangDorj
RBCF Daofa: Wei -- I am in the Ch'an tradition, yes. I am mosting studying the Chinese Mahayana Sutras.
Weifin: Which one's do you focus on if any?
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Weifin: greetings Achi!
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Achi108: Weif:)Hi, Ray_
RBCF Ray H: Welcome Lionmayne, Shunyata00, Achi108, to the Pali
RBCF Daofa: Wei -- At the moment my focus is on the Nirvana Sutra and the Pure Land Sutras.
RBCF Ray H: Sutta Chat
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Shunyata00: Thank you, Ray _
RBCF Ray H: Welcome WE Eaton 5, to the Pali Sutta Chat
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Weifin: Daofa--do you know of a Nirvana Sutra in English?
Djgrainer: hello
RBCF Daofa: There was a translation published in the 70's which can be found in some libraries. I know
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RBCF Ray H: HI Dj, welcome to the Pali Sutta Chat
RBCF Daofa: that the New York Public Library has one.
Weifin: I have a number of the Pure Land Sutras--not my preferances but read
OnlineHost: Lionmayne has left the room.
Djgrainer: i though it was sgi chat
WE Eaton 5: How is everyone tonight thought I would just listen in while I do a few other things.
Achi108: Deej_
RBCF Alaya: Daofa.. you are studying it in Chinese?
RBCF Daofa: I'm personally working on a translation of my own which can be found at
Djgrainer: this is thursday right
Weifin: Daofa--Nirvana Sutra out of Print?
RBCF Daofa: my website, though the material there at the moment is incomplete
RBCF Daofa: and not proofread well yet.
RBCF Ray H: LOL, yep Dj
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RBCF Daofa: I believe so, Wei.
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Achi108: Weif, no, just outastyle lol
Weifin: Daofa--I've been working on the Yuan Jywe Jing since about 1988
Djgrainer: okay i am lost
Achi108: Dj...you are here_
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RBCF Daofa: Alaya -- Yes,I work with the Chinese directly.
RBCF Alaya: whew.. I am impressed
Weifin: Daofa--just got new translation from the Korean (still Chinese) of Complete Enlightenment Su
RBCF Ray H: Well folks that is just about it for this weeks Pali Sutta
RBCF Ray H: Chat....hopefully we will get a new sutta next week, but it
RBCF Ray H: was fun to have the open chat!!!
OnlineHost: Djgrainer has entered the room.
Log Count: There were 10 member(s) in Buddhist Discussion at 07:00 PM
Weifin: thx ray...
RBCF Daofa: Wei -- Charles Muller translated that one, I believe.
RBCF Ray H: WB Dj!!! You are now found _
Djgrainer: sorry to interupt is sgi chat after this one?
OnlineHost: Alikali123 has entered the room.
Weifin: Yes..right...just got from Amazon
RBCF Ray H: Yes Dj, in about an hour
Djgrainer: oh okay
Weifin: I have about 15 Chinese copies with commentaries...
Alikali123: hey achi, nadia is saying shaptens in background
RBCF Ray H: Well folks, I am off to a meeting....see everyone tomorrow
RBCF Ray H: night!!
Alikali123: just thought i would tell ya coz it is cute
Alikali123: to hear
RBCF Alaya: nite ray
Achi108: shaptens...?
Weifin: nite Ray...till soon